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https://www.kaskus.co.id/thread/5256261cffca17c44e000003/pesawat-dewa-pakistan-tunda-pembelian-j-10b-tni-mau-kah
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[PESAWAT DEWA] Pakistan tunda pembelian J-10B, TNI mau-kah??
Pakistan Deal for Chinese J-10 Fighters Uncertain
Oct. 9, 2013 - 10:56AM | By WENDELL MINNICK and USMAN ANSARI

TAIPEI AND ISLAMABAD — Tough International Monetary Fund conditions on Pakistan and concerns about untested technology likely will delay Islamabad’s plan to buy 36 J-10B Vigorous Dragon multirole fighters from China under a $1.4 billion deal signed in 2009, analysts said.

Current economic conditions “preclude any possibility of acquiring new weapon systems in the next two to three years, at least,” said retired Pakistani Air Commodore Kaiser Tufail, a veteran fighter and test pilot who is now an independent military analyst in Lahore.

Under IMF loan terms, the government faces harsh conditions on raising revenue and controlling spending, including on military equipment.

A Chinese defense delegation visited Pakistan the last week of September to discuss the status of stalled defense deals. Whether this included the J-10 order is unclear.

The J-10B Super-10 is an advanced variant of the J-10A, first fielded in late 2003 with China’s Air Force. The new Super-10 will reportedly be powered by the Chinese-designed WS-10A turbofan engine, which will replace the J-10A’s Russian Saturn AL-31FN. Built by Chengdu Aircraft Industries, the jet is based on Israel’s Lavi indigenous fighter program by Israel Aerospace Industries that was canceled in 1987.

Even if a friendly Arab Gulf state provided financing, Tufail said more used Lockheed Martin F-16Cs from US stocks are preferable, “rather than trying out a new weapon system that is an unknown commodity in the realm of modern-day combat.”

Tufail questioned the wisdom of buying one squadron of J-10s.

To be cost effective “at least three to four squadrons would justify the additional wherewithal and maintenance facilities that would be needed,” he said.

Over-reliance on US high-technology equipment like fighters worries Pakistani officials, and while Tufail said diversification “be explored fully, with China and Russia as suitable sources,” in the case of the fighter, the government may not have another option.

Should a deal occur, however, Tufail foresees no problems with directly or indirectly acquiring Russian equipment such as the J-10’s AL-31FN engine.

The J-10B was first revealed to the public in early 2009. Images appearing on Chinese-language military websites indicate the J-10B had a new nose configuration with an infrared search and tracking system and a “new Diverterless Supersonic Intake configured engine air intake,” also seen on the Chengdu FC-1 Xiaolong (Fierce Dragon), which is co-produced in Pakistan as the JF-17 Thunder, said Richard Fisher, a senior fellow of Asian military affairs at the International Assessment and Strategy Center.

At least one prototype J-10B has featured the indigenous Shenyang-Liming WS-10A turbofan engine, but it remains to be seen whether all production J-10Bs will feature the WS-10A or the Russian Saturn AL-31F turbofan,” Fisher said.

“I think the JF-17 arrangement has been a workable one so far, and future weapon systems with core Russian and Chinese components can be acquired by the Pakistan Air Force on a similar basis, without difficulty,” Tufail said.

Russia allowed China to supply Pakistan the JF-17s Klimov RD-93 engine despite Indian opposition, and prospects have since improved.

“The thawing of Pak-Russo relations over the past few years is certainly a welcome development, and should help override Indian objections to any military cooperation between Pakistan and Russia,” Tufail said.

Technological advances may also scrap the J-10 deal.

Tufail believes the air force may be turning to the stealthy Chengdu J-20 though this is not presently “anything beyond a mere statement of intent.”

“It is a futuristic aircraft, not yet fully operational, and its capabilities are hardly known, so reading too much into this may be rather premature,” Tufail said.

The J-10B would offer Pakistan some advanced fourth generation capabilities.

“The canted nose cone immediately led to speculation that the J-10B also featured a new fixed antennae phased array radar and this was confirmed in 2011,” Fisher said. “There remains some speculation that this radar may be a ‘passive’ versus an ‘active’ electronically scanned array [AESA], but the key point is that the J-10B is clearly a 4+ generation fighter that also included upgraded cockpit systems and electronic warfare systems.”

But if Pakistan chooses not to become the first customer for an export configured J-10B, at $50-60 million per aircraft it will become attractive to countries like Venezuela, Argentina, Peru, Malaysia and Indonesia, who are looking for an affordable multi-role fighter, Fisher said.

[PESAWAT DEWA] Pakistan tunda pembelian J-10B, TNI mau-kah??

Spoiler for Chengdu J-10B:


http://www.defensenews.com/article/2...ters-Uncertain

**************************************************************************************

Setujukah Indonesia beli Ji Ten Bi ??? emoticon-Kiss
wah pesawat dewa yg bisa lock sukro MKV
emoticon-Belo
Quote:Original Posted By pecotot


Setujukah Indonesia beli Ji Ten Bi ??? emoticon-Kiss


kenapa harus kita gan sebagai penggantinyaemoticon-Bingung (S)
cost operasionalny lebih mahal mana ama f-16, klo equal ya gpp buat nambah deterjen dikit.
Quote:Original Posted By satrianegara77
wah pesawat dewa yg bisa lock sukro MKV
emoticon-Belo


kejadian sekitar bulan juni 2011, Su-30MKV vietnam di lock sama J-10A sepuluh kali dan pilot-pilot Su-30MKV gak bisa menemukan keberadaan siapa yg nge-lock.... emoticon-Kiss

Apalagi J-10B??? emoticon-Matabelo

Quote:
huimu Community (Wed Jun 29 17:17:54 2011), the station if it is the standard, then: one, this really. Vietnam to engage in exercises that a few days (around the foot of the relationship), empty the Second Division of the J-10 in the South China Sea over the gang rape of the Vietnamese Air Force "Thang Long" division of a four-plane formation SU30 in Vietnam simply can not find the J-10 The case, with fire control radar lock them a dozen times, each frame is locked down at least twice more. With this , it is also cut off more aircraft fleet and ground radio communications command center, and forcibly inserted into its communication channels, and more pilots to Vietnam good-neighborly relations problem started a lively discussion and harmony.
Quote:Original Posted By pecotot
kejadian sekitar bulan juni 2013, Su-30MKV vietnam di lock sama J-10A sepuluh kali dan pilot-pilot Su-30MKV gak bisa menemukan keberadaan siapa yg nge-lock.... emoticon-Kiss

Apalagi J-10B??? emoticon-Matabelo

dapet TOT ga?
soft kredit 10 - 15 thn bs ga om?
Quote:Original Posted By pecotot
Pakistan Deal for Chinese J-10 Fighters Uncertain
Oct. 9, 2013 - 10:56AM | By WENDELL MINNICK and USMAN ANSARI

TAIPEI AND ISLAMABAD — Tough International Monetary Fund conditions on Pakistan and concerns about untested technology likely will delay Islamabad’s plan to buy 36 J-10B Vigorous Dragon multirole fighters from China under a $1.4 billion deal signed in 2009, analysts said.

Current economic conditions “preclude any possibility of acquiring new weapon systems in the next two to three years, at least,” said retired Pakistani Air Commodore Kaiser Tufail, a veteran fighter and test pilot who is now an independent military analyst in Lahore.

Under IMF loan terms, the government faces harsh conditions on raising revenue and controlling spending, including on military equipment.

A Chinese defense delegation visited Pakistan the last week of September to discuss the status of stalled defense deals. Whether this included the J-10 order is unclear.

The J-10B Super-10 is an advanced variant of the J-10A, first fielded in late 2003 with China’s Air Force. The new Super-10 will reportedly be powered by the Chinese-designed WS-10A turbofan engine, which will replace the J-10A’s Russian Saturn AL-31FN. Built by Chengdu Aircraft Industries, the jet is based on Israel’s Lavi indigenous fighter program by Israel Aerospace Industries that was canceled in 1987.

Even if a friendly Arab Gulf state provided financing, Tufail said more used Lockheed Martin F-16Cs from US stocks are preferable, “rather than trying out a new weapon system that is an unknown commodity in the realm of modern-day combat.”

Tufail questioned the wisdom of buying one squadron of J-10s.

To be cost effective “at least three to four squadrons would justify the additional wherewithal and maintenance facilities that would be needed,” he said.

Over-reliance on US high-technology equipment like fighters worries Pakistani officials, and while Tufail said diversification “be explored fully, with China and Russia as suitable sources,” in the case of the fighter, the government may not have another option.

Should a deal occur, however, Tufail foresees no problems with directly or indirectly acquiring Russian equipment such as the J-10’s AL-31FN engine.

The J-10B was first revealed to the public in early 2009. Images appearing on Chinese-language military websites indicate the J-10B had a new nose configuration with an infrared search and tracking system and a “new Diverterless Supersonic Intake configured engine air intake,” also seen on the Chengdu FC-1 Xiaolong (Fierce Dragon), which is co-produced in Pakistan as the JF-17 Thunder, said Richard Fisher, a senior fellow of Asian military affairs at the International Assessment and Strategy Center.

At least one prototype J-10B has featured the indigenous Shenyang-Liming WS-10A turbofan engine, but it remains to be seen whether all production J-10Bs will feature the WS-10A or the Russian Saturn AL-31F turbofan,” Fisher said.

“I think the JF-17 arrangement has been a workable one so far, and future weapon systems with core Russian and Chinese components can be acquired by the Pakistan Air Force on a similar basis, without difficulty,” Tufail said.

Russia allowed China to supply Pakistan the JF-17s Klimov RD-93 engine despite Indian opposition, and prospects have since improved.

“The thawing of Pak-Russo relations over the past few years is certainly a welcome development, and should help override Indian objections to any military cooperation between Pakistan and Russia,” Tufail said.

Technological advances may also scrap the J-10 deal.

Tufail believes the air force may be turning to the stealthy Chengdu J-20 though this is not presently “anything beyond a mere statement of intent.”

“It is a futuristic aircraft, not yet fully operational, and its capabilities are hardly known, so reading too much into this may be rather premature,” Tufail said.

The J-10B would offer Pakistan some advanced fourth generation capabilities.

“The canted nose cone immediately led to speculation that the J-10B also featured a new fixed antennae phased array radar and this was confirmed in 2011,” Fisher said. “There remains some speculation that this radar may be a ‘passive’ versus an ‘active’ electronically scanned array [AESA], but the key point is that the J-10B is clearly a 4+ generation fighter that also included upgraded cockpit systems and electronic warfare systems.”

But if Pakistan chooses not to become the first customer for an export configured J-10B, at $50-60 million per aircraft it will become attractive to countries like Venezuela, Argentina, Peru, Malaysia and Indonesia, who are looking for an affordable multi-role fighter, Fisher said.

[PESAWAT DEWA] Pakistan tunda pembelian J-10B, TNI mau-kah??

Spoiler for Chengdu J-10B:


http://www.defensenews.com/article/2...ters-Uncertain

**************************************************************************************

Setujukah Indonesia beli Ji Ten Bi ??? emoticon-Kiss


Untuk ganti F5 kah..??
Quote:Original Posted By pecotot


kejadian sekitar bulan juni 2013, Su-30MKV vietnam di lock sama J-10A sepuluh kali dan pilot-pilot Su-30MKV gak bisa menemukan keberadaan siapa yg nge-lock.... emoticon-Kiss

Apalagi J-10B??? emoticon-Matabelo


mbah umpama jitenbe diakuisisi oleh auri lebih besar mana dampak deterjen ato dampak politikny, secara tni beli f16 tetangga adem biarpun jumlahny g dikit. giliran ngeteng sukhoi ama yakhont agak panas dingin tetangga kiri kanan.
akankah pespur impian pormmil bakal jadi kenyataan? emoticon-Ngacir2
Spoiler for Jangan dibuka:
kalau partai moncong putih yang naik tahun 2014, ada kemungkinan Indonesia melirik China sebagai supplier fighter untuk AU-nya
Quote:Original Posted By botoputeh


mbah umpama jitenbe diakuisisi oleh auri lebih besar mana dampak deterjen ato dampak politikny, secara tni beli f16 tetangga adem biarpun jumlahny g dikit. giliran ngeteng sukhoi ama yakhont agak panas dingin tetangga kiri kanan.


kalo pengen tetangga lebih gerah, segera akuisisi ini :

Spoiler for :
Quote:Original Posted By pecotot


kalo pengen tetangga lebih gerah, segera akuisisi ini :



Nggak gereget,

lebih gereget ini malahan,
Spoiler for Lebih mengerikan:
mending sukro tapi radarnya diganti sama bikinan tales. .mantao kan
Quote:Original Posted By pecotot


kejadian sekitar bulan juni 2011, Su-30MKV vietnam di lock sama J-10A sepuluh kali dan pilot-pilot Su-30MKV gak bisa menemukan keberadaan siapa yg nge-lock.... emoticon-Kiss

Apalagi J-10B??? emoticon-Matabelo



Penasaran bgt sama case ini.
Sbnrnya kejadiannya gmana ya? Krn klo sampe di lock n ga bs nyari sasarannya brarti ada bbrp kemungkinan,
1. Radar su-30 MKVinferior/ga bagus dibanding J-10A
2. MKV kena jamming?
3. Radar J-10 jaraknya jauh bgt sampe diluar range MKV?
4. Posisi J-10 menungungkan, di belakang MKV misalnya ato sembunyi dr bawah ky kasus F-22 US vs F-4 Iran?
5. Faktor alam spt kasus flanker kita?
6. Pilot vietnam oon kaga bs nyari asal lock? emoticon-Hammer

Kira2 yg mana?
Quote:Original Posted By newmomotaro


Nggak gereget,

lebih gereget ini malahan,
Spoiler for Lebih mengerikan:


itu mah kecil kalo itu tggal modal AmrAAM aja kelar itu barang. kasus perang iran-Irak khan gitu 6 Blinder digangbang ama Phoenix ama Sparrow dr Phantom dan Tomket khan

Quote:Original Posted By Biancoazzurro
akankah pespur impian pormmil bakal jadi kenyataan? emoticon-Ngacir2
Spoiler for Jangan dibuka:


emoticon-Ngakakemoticon-Ngakakemoticon-Ngakak

kenapa ada iklan indomie nyasar ???

emang nech pesawat mau di barter pake indomie ???

jamaah indomieyah muncullah ........
Quote:Original Posted By satrianegara77
wah pesawat dewa yg bisa lock sukro MKV
emoticon-Belo


klo menurut ane si pas wktu itu emang pilot vietnam nya aja yg payah gan
Quote:Original Posted By merkapa


itu mah kecil kalo itu tggal modal AmrAAM aja kelar itu barang. kasus perang iran-Irak khan gitu 6 Blinder digangbang ama Phoenix ama Sparrow dr Phantom dan Tomket khan



Bodohnya Irak aja itu cara makenya emoticon-Big Grin

Supremasi udara belum didapet malah make begituan buat bombardir kilang minyak Iran emoticon-Big Grin
Quote:Original Posted By OwlCapta


klo menurut ane si pas wktu itu emang pilot vietnam nya aja yg payah gan


Gak juga sih, Vietnam punya pilot tempur itu termasuk yang paling terlatih dan paling sering mengadakan latihan terbang rutin di antara negara Asia Tenggara emoticon-Big Grin

Kemungkinannya memang, Flanker Vietnam yang seri awal itu (sebelum mereka order Su 30 MK2) agak sedikit bermasalah . China punya Flanker seri awal sebelumnya juga pernah dijammer kan sama fighter nya Taiwan dulu.
Quote:Original Posted By pecotot


kejadian sekitar bulan juni 2011, Su-30MKV vietnam di lock sama J-10A sepuluh kali dan pilot-pilot Su-30MKV gak bisa menemukan keberadaan siapa yg nge-lock.... emoticon-Kiss

Apalagi J-10B???


1. Yang ngomong gitu siapa? Forum? Kalau cuma forum lalu dipercaya, tentu ini berarti bahwa kita tidak perlu beli tank Leopard 2, sebab di forum sudah ada yang bilang kalau kita sudah bikin tank Tahvava. Mari kita buat tank Tahvava saja.

2. Anggap saja tuh forum benar. Coba baca lagi di forum tersebut, yang ngomong J-10A siapa? Di forum tersebut cuma disebut J-10. Berarti kalau seandainya benar, bisa saja J-10B yang bisa ngelock, bukan J-10A.

(Yang dua di atas ini bukan mengkritik J-10B, cuma mengkritik agar omongan di forum itu jangan langsung dipercaya.)

3. Percuma ngarepin J-10B. Nggak dijual. Barusan awal bulan ini di trit yang bilang kalau Cina akan membuat 1200 J-10B ada yang bilang Pakistan beli J-10B. Gue bilang nggak bakal dalam waktu dekat, masih ada yang nggak percaya. Soal ekonomi itu cuma alasan. Kalau Cina memang niat memberi, bisa dikasih kredit lunak dan pembayaran ditunda beberapa tahun. Mau dikasih gratis pun sebenarnya Cina bisa, kalau niat. Tapi Cina tidak niat menjual J-10B. Cina itu niatnya jual FC-1 (alias JF-17) dan FC-20 (alias J-31). Kalau J-10B, J-11B, J-20, dan sekelasnya, itu mungkin 10-20 tahun lagi, setelah kebutuhan dalam negeri mereka sendiri terpenuhi dan mereka sudah punya varian yang lebih canggih sehingga rela melepas varian lama.