Quote:Original Posted By garandman


One more thing .... KelTec pistols require longer period of break-in. It is advisable to shoot up to 200 rounds through a new KelTec pistol before you can carry it reliably. The P-11 I bought has about 300 rounds so far. So I think it is pretty well broken-in (good, so I don't need to waste more ammo for breaking in). The P32 has only 50 rounds through ... so this will require more breaking in (I guess that's why the seller also give several boxes of ammo).


ini bukan hanya Keltec P11 atau PF9 saja

Kahr PM9 yg 2 X lebih mahal sekitar US$ 750 juga memerlukan 200 bullets break in supaya bisa mulus dan tdk suka Failure To Feed (FTF) atau Failure to Eject (FTE)

I really got dissapointed paying that much money and have a pistol action , feed ramp etc that is not polished and smoothed out first.
Quote:Original Posted By zeiss nut
ini bukan hanya Keltec P11 atau PF9 saja

Kahr PM9 yg 2 X lebih mahal sekitar US$ 750 juga memerlukan 200 bullets break in supaya bisa mulus dan tdk suka Failure To Feed (FTF) atau Failure to Eject (FTE)

I really got dissapointed paying that much money and have a pistol action , feed ramp etc that is not polished and smoothed out first.



???? Kahr PM9 has this requirement too ????

HOLY MOLLY .... I could understand cheap pistols like Keltec may not be so finely finished such that they require longer breaking-in period. But the Kahr?? Goodgrief, the Kahr costs more than a Glock, XD, M&P, and you name it .... and none of these pistols require that long of a breaking-in period. All the new XD and Glock I bought have always been 100% functional right out of the box.

Yeah, I would be disappointed too if I have to do this much TLC just to get a $700+ pistol to work right out of the box. No, I'll be pissed and feel cheated.
Yap..

My Kahr PM9 has several FTF or FTE so i email Kahr .
I was ask to do a 200+ round break-in nice and slow , clean lube then re-valuate. Turn out that Kahr manual recomend 200 round break-in

http://www.kahr.com/PA-1B/review_ar_1004.html

turn out I'm not the only guy that is surprised by this. visit The PAFOA , The High Road and other gun site


PM9 is going to be my Primary CCW but i could have just buy Keltec PF9 or PF11 and saved the money for ammo


Zeiss Nut
Quote:Original Posted By zeiss nut
Yap..

My Kahr PM9 has several FTF or FTE so i email Kahr .
I was ask to do a 200+ round break-in nice and slow , clean lube then re-valuate. Turn out that Kahr manual recomend 200 round break-in

http://www.kahr.com/PA-1B/review_ar_1004.html

turn out I'm not the only guy that is surprised by this. visit The PAFOA , The High Road and other gun site


PM9 is going to be my Primary CCW but i could have just buy Keltec PF9 or PF11 and saved the money for ammo


Zeiss Nut


No shit .... for $750, you could pick up a new Glock 19 as your primary carry, and a KelTec for your BUG (back-up gun). I don't own any Kahr product. But why is the brand so dang expensive? It ain't HK or Sig .... hell, you can pick up some models of HK and Sig for less than a Kahr. When I was looking into some BUG options, I was turned off immediately by the exorbitantly high price of the Kahr. I cannot wait to pick up my P11 and P32. I like cheap stuff, esp. those that work (and I am hoping these two work fine).
senangnya yg bisa pakai senjata beneran...paling2 ane maen airsoft...itu pun blum ada di t4 ane...hiks

Talking 

Quote:Original Posted By garandman


Ini photo2 dari si penjual .... the toys baru bisa saya ambil minggu depan. Habis weekend ini kita kena badai salju lagi (imagine that, the first day of spring and we receive up to 4 inches of snow!).

The P-11 in 9x19mm



The P32 in 32 ACP (caliber kesayangan om Sphinx)



Karena saya yg bakal ke tempat si penjual (kebetulan anak2 dan istri mau jalan2 ke kota itu), maka saya dapat discount ... plus bakal dikasih 9mm ammo satu box. The 32 ACP pistol juga datang dengan 150 rounds of ammo, including 50 rounds of Winchester Silvertip defensive ammo (very expensive ammo!).


ngejek lagi deh hiks hiks. bodo ah selama i hit the target and the paper bolong no problemo. saya mau nanya om kok itu ada yang kudu "diperawani" mpe 200 round dulu baru mulus gitu kenapa ya..? lah klo yang di manual P3 made in pindad kagak ada tuh keknya macam beginian. klo dah 200 rounds apa malah jadi bengkok barelnya. gak tahu deh.
Quote:Original Posted By sphinx123
ngejek lagi deh hiks hiks. bodo ah selama i hit the target and the paper bolong no problemo. saya mau nanya om kok itu ada yang kudu "diperawani" mpe 200 round dulu baru mulus gitu kenapa ya..? lah klo yang di manual P3 made in pindad kagak ada tuh keknya macam beginian. klo dah 200 rounds apa malah jadi bengkok barelnya. gak tahu deh.


Yg 32ACP bakal jadi bawaan istri saya, kalau dia lagi emoh bawa G26 atau butuh bawa tapi nggak bisa bawa tas (P32 ini kecil banget, bisa di bawa di kantong celana).

Kenapa perlu diperawani sebanyak 200 rounds? Yah namanya pistol murahan, tentunya parts tolerance, precision, dan finishing tidak sebagus pistol2 yg lebih mahal. Pistol2 kelas ini memang dimaksudkan utk close range defense. Dibawah 10 meter deh. Kalau dengan G19 saya masih oke engage target 25m, kalau pakai P11 mungkin cukup sampai 10-15 m saja. Tapi nggak tahu ya, siapa tahu dia juga accurate sampai 25m .... tapi saya ragu sih, sebabnya triggernya berat sekali dan tarikannya panjang. Imagine the double action trigger in a revolver. P11 tarikannya berat dan panjaaaaang. Ini adalah satu2nya safety mechanism di pistol ini.
Quote:Original Posted By garandman
Yg 32ACP bakal jadi bawaan istri saya, kalau dia lagi emoh bawa G26 atau butuh bawa tapi nggak bisa bawa tas (P32 ini kecil banget, bisa di bawa di kantong celana).

Kenapa perlu diperawani sebanyak 200 rounds? Yah namanya pistol murahan, tentunya parts tolerance, precision, dan finishing tidak sebagus pistol2 yg lebih mahal. Pistol2 kelas ini memang dimaksudkan utk close range defense. Dibawah 10 meter deh. Kalau dengan G19 saya masih oke engage target 25m, kalau pakai P11 mungkin cukup sampai 10-15 m saja. Tapi nggak tahu ya, siapa tahu dia juga accurate sampai 25m .... tapi saya ragu sih, sebabnya triggernya berat sekali dan tarikannya panjang. Imagine the double action trigger in a revolver. P11 tarikannya berat dan panjaaaaang. Ini adalah satu2nya safety mechanism di pistol ini.


owalah apalagi yang P3 perawaninya musti berapa rounds tuh. accurate yang dimaksud apa yah om kemaren latihan 15 to 25 meter ya masih kena di kertas target (menurut saya seh masih accurate) seh ato mungkin accurate untuk menjatuhkan zombie gitu.(yang ini namanya efektife gitu ya).
Quote:Original Posted By sphinx123
owalah apalagi yang P3 perawaninya musti berapa rounds tuh. accurate yang dimaksud apa yah om kemaren latihan 15 to 25 meter ya masih kena di kertas target (menurut saya seh masih accurate) seh ato mungkin accurate untuk menjatuhkan zombie gitu.(yang ini namanya efektife gitu ya).


Kalau standard saya sih ... 25m masih bisa buat menjatuhkan steel plate (8" diameter) berarti masih cukup accurate utk self defense.

Utk breaking-in procedure for P3 silakan tanya Pindad tuh. Yg penting pistol harus bersih dulu, lalu titik2 tertentu diberikan pelumas berbentuk grease atau oil. Oil tidak selalu bisa dipakai di semua parts. Misalnya utk rail antara frame dan slide lebih baik pakai grease karena oil akan cepat hilang due to heat and friction.
Quote:Original Posted By sphinx123
owalah apalagi yang P3 perawaninya musti berapa rounds tuh. accurate yang dimaksud apa yah om kemaren latihan 15 to 25 meter ya masih kena di kertas target (menurut saya seh masih accurate) seh ato mungkin accurate untuk menjatuhkan zombie gitu.(yang ini namanya efektife gitu ya).


kalo P3 itu sapi kelas mahal om sphinx, gak perlu di perawanin dulu. Malah kalo kebanyakan round round kan si om dah tau sendiri

Talking 

Quote:Original Posted By ghaz1
kalo P3 itu sapi kelas mahal om sphinx, gak perlu di perawanin dulu. Malah kalo kebanyakan round round kan si om dah tau sendiri


wehehehe nyang mpunya P3 dateng. iya ndan kayaknya demikian. barang mewah jadi kudu bener2 ati2 makenya juga gak boleh sering2 biar tetep mulus.
P3 bukannya buatan Indonesia? Harganya mahal yah?
Quote:Original Posted By sphinx123
wehehehe nyang mpunya P3 dateng. iya ndan kayaknya demikian. barang mewah jadi kudu bener2 ati2 makenya juga gak boleh sering2 biar tetep mulus.


Tadi malam teman karib saya telpon. Lalu kami membicarakan the KelTec pistols. Dia punya KelTec P3AT in .380 caliber (9x17), yg ukuran-nya sangat mirip dengan P32 in 32 ACP. But the .380 has more of everything .... bullet weight, size, power, and recoil. Dia bilang ... a 32 ACP is considered too small by many for use as self defense caliber. You need both penetration and expansion to stop a bad guy. The 32 ACP can give you only one. Begini, kalau pakai ball ammo (FMJ), 32 ACP bisa memberikan penetration yg lebih baik. Akan tetapi it does not expand. Kalau mau expand pakailah JHP, but even the best 32 ACP JHP available is known not to penetrate deep enough to inflict incapacitating wound. Apalagi kalau the bad guy mengenakan many layers of clothings (spt jacket dan sweat shirts utk winter). The JHP will expand, but it stops way short than the 12" penetration (ballistic gelatin) standard established by the FBI for pistol cartridge to be considered effective as a man stopper.

Jadi advice dari teman saya .... if someone has to carry a 32ACP pistol .... when the time comes to use it .... dump the entire magazine on center-of-mass, or ... shoot one at center-of-mass to slow him, then aim for the head, repeat as necessary. Jadi utk rekan2 BC yg bawa 32ACP .... train and train hard ... make sure you can put them in the head, because your 32ACP will not be powerful enough to stop some determined attackers with COM hits. Bring a backup defensive tool other than your P3. I don't know ... a pepper spray, or a baton ... or golok (beneran yg pakai gagang kayu) .... OR ..... the best solution ...... upgrade to a 9x19mm pistol .... <BIG GRIN>
Quote:Original Posted By garandman


Jadi advice dari teman saya .... if someone has to carry a 32ACP pistol .... when the time comes to use it .... dump the entire magazine on center-of-mass, or ... shoot one at center-of-mass to slow him, then aim for the head, repeat as necessary. Jadi utk rekan2 BC yg bawa 32ACP .... train and train hard ... make sure you can put them in the head, because your 32ACP will not be powerful enough to stop some determined attackers with COM hits. Bring a backup defensive tool other than your P3. I don't know ... a pepper spray, or a baton ... or golok (beneran yg pakai gagang kayu) .... OR ..... the best solution ...... upgrade to a 9x19mm pistol .... <BIG GRIN>


Owh my Garand jadi selemah itukah daya gedor P3 tidak bisa melumpuhkan on 1st shot??

Kalau memang itu yg di inginkan para petinggi disini, ya mungkin gitu. Dont use the weapon for killing, just use it for shock therapy only
omm garand mau nanya dikit nih.. sorry OOT..

kenapa yah banyak senjata sniper pake .308?? mulai dr yg bolt action sampe otomatis? knp ngga .223?? soal jarak, menang .223 apa tergantung loading masing2 yah?

satu lagi, bener ngga sih istilah one shot one kill by sniper?? ato hanya myth??
Quote:Original Posted By garandman
Tadi malam teman karib saya telpon. Lalu kami membicarakan the KelTec pistols. Dia punya KelTec P3AT in .380 caliber (9x17), yg ukuran-nya sangat mirip dengan P32 in 32 ACP. But the .380 has more of everything .... bullet weight, size, power, and recoil. Dia bilang ... a 32 ACP is considered too small by many for use as self defense caliber. You need both penetration and expansion to stop a bad guy. The 32 ACP can give you only one. Begini, kalau pakai ball ammo (FMJ), 32 ACP bisa memberikan penetration yg lebih baik. Akan tetapi it does not expand. Kalau mau expand pakailah JHP, but even the best 32 ACP JHP available is known not to penetrate deep enough to inflict incapacitating wound. Apalagi kalau the bad guy mengenakan many layers of clothings (spt jacket dan sweat shirts utk winter). The JHP will expand, but it stops way short than the 12" penetration (ballistic gelatin) standard established by the FBI for pistol cartridge to be considered effective as a man stopper.

Jadi advice dari teman saya .... if someone has to carry a 32ACP pistol .... when the time comes to use it .... dump the entire magazine on center-of-mass, or ... shoot one at center-of-mass to slow him, then aim for the head, repeat as necessary. Jadi utk rekan2 BC yg bawa 32ACP .... train and train hard ... make sure you can put them in the head, because your 32ACP will not be powerful enough to stop some determined attackers with COM hits. Bring a backup defensive tool other than your P3. I don't know ... a pepper spray, or a baton ... or golok (beneran yg pakai gagang kayu) .... OR ..... the best solution ...... upgrade to a 9x19mm pistol .... <BIG GRIN>


yeah once again, any bullet whatsoever, even a .22 in your chest will kill you.

In self-defense and in war we're not trying to kill the bad guy. We're trying to stop bad guy first, and kill second. I don't want to shoot bad guy in the foot, have it get infected, and have him die 2 weeks later. I need him to stop moving and stop shooting NOW, not two minutes AFTER I shoot him.

at least 9mm lah... standar pribadi gwa... (meskipun blum kesampean)
Quote:Original Posted By ghaz1
Owh my Garand jadi selemah itukah daya gedor P3 tidak bisa melumpuhkan on 1st shot??

Kalau memang itu yg di inginkan para petinggi disini, ya mungkin gitu. Dont use the weapon for killing, just use it for shock therapy only


Silakan baca "Handgun Wounding Factor and Effectiveness" yg ditulis oleh Special Agent Urey Pattrick from the FBI in July 1989.

http://www.firearmstactical.com/pdf/fbi-hwfe.pdf

Talking 

Quote:Original Posted By garandman
Tadi malam teman karib saya telpon. Lalu kami membicarakan the KelTec pistols. Dia punya KelTec P3AT in .380 caliber (9x17), yg ukuran-nya sangat mirip dengan P32 in 32 ACP. But the .380 has more of everything .... bullet weight, size, power, and recoil. Dia bilang ... a 32 ACP is considered too small by many for use as self defense caliber. You need both penetration and expansion to stop a bad guy. The 32 ACP can give you only one. Begini, kalau pakai ball ammo (FMJ), 32 ACP bisa memberikan penetration yg lebih baik. Akan tetapi it does not expand. Kalau mau expand pakailah JHP, but even the best 32 ACP JHP available is known not to penetrate deep enough to inflict incapacitating wound. Apalagi kalau the bad guy mengenakan many layers of clothings (spt jacket dan sweat shirts utk winter). The JHP will expand, but it stops way short than the 12" penetration (ballistic gelatin) standard established by the FBI for pistol cartridge to be considered effective as a man stopper.

Jadi advice dari teman saya .... if someone has to carry a 32ACP pistol .... when the time comes to use it .... dump the entire magazine on center-of-mass, or ... shoot one at center-of-mass to slow him, then aim for the head, repeat as necessary. Jadi utk rekan2 BC yg bawa 32ACP .... train and train hard ... make sure you can put them in the head, because your 32ACP will not be powerful enough to stop some determined attackers with COM hits. Bring a backup defensive tool other than your P3. I don't know ... a pepper spray, or a baton ... or golok (beneran yg pakai gagang kayu) .... OR ..... the best solution ...... upgrade to a 9x19mm pistol .... <BIG GRIN>


ampun deh gak usah bilang2 aja napa om malah jadi parno ntar ndan ghaz. ya karena keterbatasan dalam sisi peraturan dan juga situasi dilapangan saya kira pimpinan memahami juga kenapa dikasih P3. saya pikir emang fungsi P3 itu buat unjuk kekuatan aja kan yang dihadapin juga jarang ngarti tuh 32 apa 9 apa 45 yang penting pestol mah mematikan. saya kira lebih ke efek nakut2in dulu aja. dalam real situation misal yang patroli kan dibawainnya 5.56mm bahkan 7.62nya Valmet(bener gak yah ini) klo grebeg2an juga mustinya yang maju duluan yang bawa 5.56. klo kumendan mah ya ngumpet dolo dibelakang ngelus2 P3nya bener gak yah itu ndan gahaz..? heheheh
dan saya kira diplomasi kita bagus seringnya dapat dihandle tanpa fire satu round pun saya masih bersyukur karenannya.
Teddy Roosevelt bilang ..... walk softly and carry a big stick .... diplomasi itu perlu kang, tetapi kekuatan diplomasi baru akan effective bila kita memiliki kemampuan utk mengalahkan lawan melalui kekerasan juga. Kalau yg kang Sphinx hadapi selama ini orang2 yg ketakutan begitu lihat pistol, maka diplomasi anda akan bisa berjalan. Tetapi bagaimana kalau suatu saat nanti anda menghadapi orang2 yg nekat dan terlatih? Atau bahkan bawa senjata juga yg calibernya mungkin lebih besar dari your P3?

How many rounds can a P3 hold in the magazine? How many spare magazines do you carry while on duty?

Nih ada alternative lain ... kalau memang 32 ACP adalah maximum caliber yg diizinkan, bagaimana kalau bawa 22WMR (a.k.a. 22 Magnum) ?

Take a look at this new pistol ...

http://kel-tec-cnc.com/pmr30.htm

Isi 30 butir! Low recoil, high capacity, and light weight. Bagus kan?

Talking 

Quote:Original Posted By garandman
Teddy Roosevelt bilang ..... walk softly and carry a big stick .... diplomasi itu perlu kang, tetapi kekuatan diplomasi baru akan effective bila kita memiliki kemampuan utk mengalahkan lawan melalui kekerasan juga. Kalau yg kang Sphinx hadapi selama ini orang2 yg ketakutan begitu lihat pistol, maka diplomasi anda akan bisa berjalan. Tetapi bagaimana kalau suatu saat nanti anda menghadapi orang2 yg nekat dan terlatih? Atau bahkan bawa senjata juga yg calibernya mungkin lebih besar dari your P3?

How many rounds can a P3 hold in the magazine? How many spare magazines do you carry while on duty?

Nih ada alternative lain ... kalau memang 32 ACP adalah maximum caliber yg diizinkan, bagaimana kalau bawa 22WMR (a.k.a. 22 Magnum) ?

Take a look at this new pistol ...

http://kel-tec-cnc.com/pmr30.htm

Isi 30 butir! Low recoil, high capacity, and light weight. Bagus kan?


bagus bagus bagus....segera ke carefour siang ini. ndan ghaz nitip gak...??
....

betul betul betul.pasrah aja untuk sementara.